So, 25 years ago would you ever have imagined
Sitting in a room in Spain
Looking back on your whole career
You know, I tend to live in the moment and I, I think probably
One of the themes of this interview will be about just that
Living in the moment, not really thinking much about the future
Or, or necessarily thinking about the past, y'know
The great thing about music is it's, it's very immediate
And it's, then it's gone it's over
So no I didn't really anticipate this
I didn't anticipate becoming 60
Erm, I, I couldn't imagine being 60 when I was 25 or
Even 30
Erm, I'm glad that I'm my age
I er, I'm proud of my age, I'm not hiding it
I think there's a certain amount of, erm, sagacity that comes along with it
You know, a bit of, a bit of wisdom, not too much
Erm, and yet I don't feel physically like I'm that age
I, I don't feel infirm, you know, erm
I think my, um, impression of people who are 60 when I was younger was that they
Y'know, they just couldn't function as human beings
As physical human beings
And I feel, er, very strong so I'm fortunate in that sense
So it's fun, I have, I have, I have both sides of it
I have a bit of wisdom and I still have, y'know, the energy of a younger man
How did it go down
The, the whole process for "The Dream of the Blue Turtles"
And bringing that whole concept together?
I get bored very easily and, erm
I just like to do a different thing every, every time
I'm not one of these guys who just want to keep pressing the same button, y'know
To get the same result 'cause I don't think you do
I think get diminishing returns
I've always been a bit of a gadfly, erm
Y'know and some people would say that's not a logical, y'know
If you're successful, you have a formula here
Then you should keep repeating it
And my rationale is the complete opposite, y'know
Once you've, once you, once you know that works then why do it again?
And so I, I, I wanted to make "The Dream of the Blue Turtles" as basically, er
An omnibus of different kinds of songs
And then I started t-, t-, to look for musicians to recruit
And I was in New York and I met Branford Marsalis and Kenny Kirkland
Who were jazz players and I was intrigued by that
Not that I wanted to, to make a Jazz record
I was just intrigued by people who wanted to cross over
From one kind of music and who were broad-minded enough t-
To see the possibilities of that rather than, er, y'know
Just sticking with jazz or just making pop music
And actually see if something could be created from b-, from both
My mum was dying at the, when I was making this record and erm
Yeah, she, she was obviously a, a sort of guiding spirit of the record
Although not consciously
I didn't set out to make a record, y'know, about my mother but
Obviously she was on my mind a lot and suffering a lot
And, er, I suppose the record became a kind of, erm
Therapy, a way of processing that, those feelings
M-, my previous, er, successful song had been "Every Breath You Take"
Which is a kind of song about control and surveillance and, y'know
It's not a terribly healthy song
Although some people think it's very romantic, erm
I won't, I won't disabuse them of that
Of course you can interpret a song whatever way
But there is some dark-, a darkness to "Every Breath You Take"
So I wanted to write the antidote to that
Which of course is, if you love somebody set them free
Well, I don't think I invented that phrase, I think it came from somewhere else
But it was the way I was feeling, you know
I wanted to be set free and if you really love me let me go
"Love Is The Seventh Wave" is a great example of a track
Where you brought calypso and reggae together
How did, how did that all come about?
Well, we were on the island of Barbados, you know
And, erm, we were going to every night to, to reggae bars and so, y'know
It just, it was in the water we were drinking so we just did a reggae song
It's a sweet song
What motivated you to write the track "Englishman in New York"?
"Englishman in New York" w- was inspired by, erm
A guy who became a friend of mine, erm
Quentin Crisp. He was homosexual at a time where, it was
One, it was illegal in Britain and dangerous
And he was a very singular man, a very brave man
Who dressed in a very flamboyant manor at a time when it was dangerous
And wrote, wrote about his life
And, er, he wrote a book called "The Naked Civil Servant"
And, er, then when I moved to New York I, I, I sought him out
And I'd have, I'd have lunch with him and we'd chat a lot
And, er, I wrote that song for him, you know, the
The line "be yourself no matter what they say" I think that's
I think that's one of his
"They Dance Alone" was, was inspired by an article I read in, erm, a magazine
About the Pinochet regime in Chile, erm
With the help of the CIA, y'know, Pinochet had, had a military coup and, erm
Had basically murdered a lot of people who lef-
Left wing people, union leaders, intellectuals, folk singers
And, erm, the whole class of people became known as "The Disappeared"
"Los, Los Desaparecidos" and, erm
There was no recourse, there was no legal recourse for these people
The survivors of these families, and
What they did was, the, the mothers of The Disappeared
Or the, the wives or the children would, erm, dress in traditional costume
And they'd pin the photographs of their loved ones to the clothes
And they'd dance this traditional Chilean dance called the Cueca
Outside of government buildings and of course were photographed
And, you know, that, that created a great furore, erm
And I, I learned of, of their p-, the whole situation through this article
And then, then I, I went to Chile and I met these, I met these women
And they told me the horrific stories of, of what had happened to the their
Their husbands and their sons
And the song became a bit of a cause célèbre in Chile
I think it was banned, understandably, but, erm
Eventually I, I, I went back to Chile with Amnesty International
And, er, performed the song with the mothers on stage
In the stadium where a lot of their kids had been murdered
So that was pretty, erm, it-, it's as intense performance situation
As you ever likely to get, erm
Because everyone in the stadium knew what was being re-enacted here
And dancing with these mums, er, in this particular place was, er
Probably unforgettable, erm, one, one of the moments that you think w-
What a privilege to be a performer and you are allowed to do this kind of thing
Erm, and I have kept the relationship with these people
Every time I go to Chile they, they come and see me and er
You know, I just lost my own mother so it was kind of, er, re-
A lot, lot of replacement mothers sort of turned up
So, er, there was a connection there
"The Soul Cages", erm
I started to think about an album just aft- after "Nothing Like the Sun", erm
And my mum died and then my, me old man died and, er, within a year of each other
So I was kind of, er, in a bit of a state really, erm
I knew I had to write something because that's always been my therapy
The way of processing emotion
And I started to think about where I came from
Well, I'm from Tyneside which is a very industrial part of, er, England
And I was brought up in a very bizarre landscape, industrial landscape
In a street next to a shipyard and one of my earliest memories if of, erm
A massive, er, boat being built above our house, um
So big that it would just blot out the sun
And then they'd, they'd launch a ship then they'd, they'd build another one
These ships of course would never come back
Once they'd been launched they, they would, they would leave
And, er, it became very symbolic, I suppose of my own life
Started writing about my town and by association writing about my, my dad
And the death of my father and the death of my town really
'Cause they closed the shipyard and they closed the coal mine and, erm
A thriving community bas- basically left to its own devices, um
So the themes on that record are kind of dark
Tell me about "All This Time"
What's interesting is that it seems that Bach played a big influence in that song
Well, you know, I'd sort of fallen in love with Bach cello suites
First the first one particularly and, erm, was just messing around on guitar with those
The, the way it changes and then it kind of evolved into a song which you, you wouldn't
Even a musicologist wouldn't see the connection
But that's, that was the starting point
The way the chords move came from Bach
And then they evolved so you wouldn't recognise what it was but, you know
That's how, that's how you start
You, you take something that exists already and then you transform it into something else
And then you lose, you lose whatever the, the original influence was
And it becomes something different but, er
I still find Bach a very useful teacher, you know
I, I try and play little bit everyday, erm, from the music
And there's an interesting thing happens when you, when you play from music
You're almost in the same, in the room with the guy who wrote 400 years ago
And you see him making decisions on the paper
And you wonder how on earth he figured that one out, you know
It's, it's like, it's like being with a teacher
So he's still very much a, a character in my back room
Your next record was "Ten Summoner's Tales"
What, what's the story behind that record for you?
I decided to get out of city, um, you know
I'd been liv- liv- living in London for a long long time and, er
Just wanted to know what it would be like to live in the country, you know
It's an atmosphere on that record that's very much about being at home and that house
Er, we all lived in the house, all the musicians and the technicians, er
The studio was my dining room, next to a kitchen
The windows were open most of the time and, er
I wrote the songs walking round the garden
I was sitting by the river, it was pretty idyllic
So on the track of "Fields of Gold" you clearly are speaking of barley fields and, you know
This is part of your environment, er, at the time
But what, what does this mean to you and, and what attracted you to write a song about that?
Well, you, you know there was surrounded by barley fields, it's as simple as that
And again I wanted to pay tribute to that idea of continuity in relationships and, erm
How important they are and the song is a very, sort of, it's like an old folk song, you know
And it uses tropes from old, old songs that, you know, have been around for years
That no one can lay claim to, it's part of our heritage
But, er, it, that song could have been written in the 16th century, you know
It wouldn't be much different to, but it, it has, has a meaning now which I, I like
Tell me about the track "Seven Days"
"Seven Days" is I, I think a funny song
It's perversely written in 5/4 time whereas maybe 7/8 time would have been a little more appropriate
But, you know, I like writing in, in compound time, erm
It's like a puzzle to me, how do you fit standard rhyme into this very sort of strange metre?
Erm, some people get it, some people don't but
I, I, It's, for me it's like a three-dimensional puzzle
I love the way drums keep looping round in this
Every time they come back they're in a different place in the bar
That amuses me
"Mercury Falling" was, was again made at Lake House
There are some songs on it that I'm really proud of
"Hung My Head", I'm very proud of that song, was
Was eventually covered by Johnny Cash which made me very happy
You know, if you're writing a country song and Johnny Cash covers it
You're doing something right
"Hounds of Winter", I like that song too, I like the way the chords move
And it's really a song about a, being older man reflecting on loneliness
It wasn't me at the time but, you know, you're allowed to role-play
And you're allowed to put yourself in the shoes of other people as a songwriter
What's the meaning behind the track "Let Your Soul Be Your Pilot"?
A friend of mine who was dying of AIDS and, erm
I didn't, didn't really have much hope for him
And I just thought I'd write a, you know, a supportive song about, er
What that situation would be like
Happily he, he didn't die, he was in one of those miracles and, erm
But, you know, the, the period before that when people got AIDS
They, they, they were basically condemned to death and
Happily now, people can, can have normal lives but er, this, the song was about death
And, and coping with it, erm
I think it's an important subject, increasingly
"Brand New Day" was written just before the millennium
And there was a lot of, er, millennial talk about the end of the world, you know
We had the, the Y2K scare, you know, the, the world was going to end
And I, I think sort of pessimism like that is kind of self-fulfilling in a way
So I, I wanted to write an antidote to that saying start again
There's a song called, erm, "Tomorrow We'll See"
The character that emerged from this music was a tr-, a, a, a transsexual prostitute
And, er, I don't know quite where he, he comes from in my psyche
But, erm, I we-, I went through with it, wrote the song in this persona of this, this, this person
And the refrain is, you know, "don't judge me"
You could be me in another, another life, a different set of circumstances
Which I think is a, a good lesson
You know, we shouldn't judge people
The world is riddled with judgement, you know
And it's, it's not helping
We need to, er, be tolerant and we need to understand each other
And, er, accept each other's differences
"Desert Rose" was a song about spiritual longing I suppose
With, th- through the filter of romantic longing
I gave it to Cheb Mami who doesn't speak English and I said
"Can you write some lyrics in Arabic that will, that will, be, be
Able to weave in and out of this, of my song?"
And he said "sure", you know
So he, he came back about a week later and he said "Oh I've got this"
And he started just singing and I said "What are you singing about?"
And he says "Oh, I'm singing about longing"
So, I mean, it's not a big stretch really but, you know
It was interesting that we were both basically singing the same thing
Even from different cultures
I felt for a time, erm, in the, in the aftermath of that event Sept- September the 11th
That the United States had an opportunity, er
The world was very much with it, er, and in sympathy with it
Apart from a few hare-brained fanatics
And that, that was a very useful, er, time for America to set things, a few things right
And instead we, we ended up invading Iraq for, er
Reasons that have since been shown to be spurious
It made me angry and I, I, I think a lot of the songs on secret love were
An angry reaction to that wasted opportunity
You know, for years I'd, I'd been, erm, propositioned by people saying that
I oughta sing the music of John Dowland
And I can never figure out why this proposition kept coming to me
And it sounds, sounds a bit fruity, you know
This sort of 16th century music, very highfalutin, aw
I never quite saw it
And then, erm, I, I met, erm, a lute player called Edin Karamazov
He's a fantastic lute player but he, he lives in this world
This strange 16th century world
And he said "You should learn the songs of Dowland"
Okay, I, I, let's, let's, let, I'm, I'm tired of hearing this
Let's, let's see what this is about, so he taught me some of the songs
It's one of those, erm, sort of labours of love that you just do for curiosity and
So I'm, I'm kind of, erm, gratified by that and I hope, hope John Dowland is
And he's not spinning in his grave somewhere, wherever he's buried
In 2009 you released "If on a Winter's Night"
Er, what, what made that record unique and what was that process like for you?
This, this concept was brought to me by Bob Sagin who was a very successful record producer
Because I like the winter, I really, I, I love the winter and, erm
We started to, to look at repertoire and first some of the repertoire was a little bit obvious
You know, like Christmas carols that everybody knew and
I said I'm not really interested in that kind of record
I, I want to do s- songs that people don't know
Esoteric songs, strange songs
I sang a couple of the songs in my dialect 'cause I hadn't actually done that on record before
But, erm, and it's a, it's a dialect I rarely use unless I get angry
And so to use it for singing was interesting but I, I kind of lost my accent in my twenties
When I moved to London no-one understood a word I said
I said, ok, ok I will learn a new language but, er
If I go home I'll speak Geordie, er
Or if I get really angry
You've been doing this for so long it seems that you work so hard
Where, where does you work ethic come from?
I f- don't feel as if I'm, er, existing unless I'm working
I, I, I, I, it, it, it's my raison d'etre
I, I'm not, I'm not saying thats a particularly healthy attitude but it's the way I am
I, er, I enjoy working but when I'm not working I, I, I don't know what my function is
I still think I'm a work in progress, you know
I still think I've, I've got a ways to go before and I, I can stop
